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Pegasys Products BBS [ Sorted by thread creation date ]
hi all,
i always use tmpgenc to produce my svcds. but now a magazine tested some decoders and gave cinemacraft 95% and tmpgenc (second place) 80% encoding quality...
never tried cinema craft because i think it's too expensive...
does anyone tried cce and can confirm the test?
(sorry for my bad english, hope you understand...)
If used Properly CCE is superior But you are right If is Way to expensive so Tmpgenc is a Better deal, CCE is aimed towards Profesinals cuz I guess Only a Pro Can afford it and CCE does not have the versitillity that Tmpgenc has..Like CCE will not re-size the resolution of your file and doesn"t have any filters...But there are ways around that.....
Did a test, with 480x576 B&W file, and used the following settings:
TMPGENC:
2-pass-VBR
avr-2300
max-2596
min-1226
Default Matrix
DC-presicion 8
detect scene change
IBBPBBPBBPBBPBB
Non-interlaced Source/encoding
Motion search: normal
One pass VBR (first pass):
Quality 100
Min 1226
Max 2596
Multi Pass VBR (only 1 pass, because that way the total is 2)
avr-2300
min-1226
max-2596
According to "bitrate viewer", both programs didn't do well on the given bitrates:
CCE gave max of 2776 and avr of 2243
TMPGenc gave max of 2713 and avr of 2173
On Quantization level, CCE did much better:
CCE: Peak 7.36 avr 4.35
TMPGenc: Peak 13.48 avr 5.97
However, when actually watching the results, there is an interesting discovery:
Seems like in order to gain better compression, what CCE does is simply redusing the number of brightness levels! True TMPGenc gave more blocking, but it didn't look as bad as the CCE result!
For your thoughts... And soon a color clip test...
One thing is that your test is flawed in many respects, in CCE you used the "Multi-pass" but you set it to "1" pass, if you read the manual it says to use the "multipass" properly you need to use at Least 2 passes, setting it to 1 pass only lets CCE do half of the job ,you seem to be under the impression that 1 pass is 2 passes and it isn"t, the method for encodeing between "One Pass VBR and Multi-pass are totally different, it would have been more fair if you set CCE to "One Pass VBR" at least then CCE is doing the whole proscess..In multi-pass the last stage were the encodeing is done it relies totally on the passes that were performed before and does not do a pass while encodeing like it does in the "One Pass VBR" mode, there for one pass is one pass..One of the reasons the results weren"t to your likeing could be cuz you used the "Zig Zag" scanning method which is reserved primarily for Mpeg1..And in the test you did for the "One Pass VBR" you set the Q level Way to High, if you read the manual you would know the higher you set the Q level in "One Pass VBR" the worse the Quality will be, the lower the Better, and you did not set it to the correct Matrix, the default matrix is for bitrates that are above 4000kbs, you should have use the "very low bitrate" matrix...I have done many test with Tmpgenc and CCE and if used correctly CCE will give you Superior results for mpeg2 encodeing every time, but you can"t beat Tmpgenc for it"s mpeg1 encodeing it is probably the best out there and CCE"s mpeg1 is only Marginal, and have found that the "One Pass VBR" in CCE is as good as the Multi-Pass when you have a good source file...Tmpgenc is the best encoder for versitility and has lots of Paremeters to controll the encodeing,I have found that I get the best results in CCE when I use Tmpgenc to Frame serve to CCE through VFAPI, then I get to use most of the settings in Tmpgenc with CCE so it is like Haveing the settings and versitility of Tmpgenc with the encodeing speed and quality of CCE, the best of both worlds......
Well, seems like I did do a mistake regarding the CQ value, but:
I had to set multipass vbr to 1 because first I have to creat the VAF file using "one pass VBR" option, and that is already one pass over the file... If I'd set "Multipass VBR" to 2 that means it reads the file 3 times, and since TMPGE only can do 2 passes it wouldn't be fair play.
I used Zigzag, because the MPEG2 file is prograssive, and ZigZag is for progressive video wether MPEG1 or 2, and besides Tmpegenc uses zigzag too when I set it to Progressive source and encoding.
About the matrix it doesn't matter because the point is that I used same Matrix for both programs...
I will re-test it with the CQ value changed and will tell if anything really changed...
This is one of the points I was trying to make ,in "multi-pass" it Doesn"t read the file in the encodeing pass for purposes of analizeing the file it just encodes it relying Totally on the Previous Passes for how it allocates the bits, which is totally different than the "One Pass VBR" were it analizes and encodes in the same pass..but trying to compare the settings in Tmpgenc to settings is like compareing apples and oranges..There is not selection of low and high bitrate matrixes in Tmpgenc so compareing the standard matrix in tmpgenc to the standard matrix in CCE just can"t be done fairly...CCE does have some fine tuneing features that can"t be compared to certain features in Tmpgenc like in CCE you can controll the bitrate from Scene to Scene or even second to second and you can adjust the Quantization from scene to scene or second to second, plus it has a built in Bitrate Viewer..Then again Tmpgenc has a whole array of features that CCE doesn"t have..The encodeing method I use I get to use all the settings in Tmpgenc with CCE this way I get better results than either can produce by themselves...every one knows what they like and what ever works for you is best for you which might not be what works for me..all that matters is that every one is happy with the results they get no matter how they get them.....Cheers
Did the same thing, this time creating the VAF file using CBR at 2300, then avr 2300 min 1226 max 2596. Same quality, same all, except that the max bitrate now reaches 2814.
Don't know about color yet, but maybe it's less noticable there, maybe just a bug in B&W encoding (where no color information available)...
It's just that it analizes the file and save the info in a VAF file. At the same chance it also encodes, but it also creats info on the video. Then basing on the info file, you compress the video. To use the info for compression you need to use the Multipass VBR.
First time in CBR make the VAF, second time it encodes the video based on the VAF.
And tmpgenc? First pass it analizes the video (look at the log file it creates, it masures the motion for each GOP and so selects what bitrate should be used later), second time is actuall compression.
So you see you get the same thing at the end.
About Matrix, the thing is that I use the same Matrix for both programs and that's what matters. If I wanted to use Low bitrate matrix in CCE, nothing would prevent me from simply entering it manually in Tmpgenc, or if needed, he other way from Tmpgenc to CCE.
What I want to see is if I have the same Matrix, same min,avr and max bitrate, which will give better result, simple as that.
Anyway, this is no reason for anger, because at the end it also matters what kind of compression artifacts would disterb each of us more...
Hi
If I try to encode DV-Material as VCD with bitrates > 2000 kbps the total playtime shown in Mediaplayer of the encoded Video differs from the source video's total playtime (about twice as long).
Im also unable to scroll the video to another position...
The error occurs sometimes, but not always ?!?
Why does this error occur and is it possible to rescue the encodet material ?
If you are happy about what you have, there is no reason to go for newer
version, but why don't you try newest version, since you can try more than
2 version on the same computer by extracting those different location.
Just make sure you configure VFAPI plug-in location for both version
properly.
TMPGEnc usually becomes strict about accepting files as it is developed,
In another words, there seems to be theory/policy on TMPGEnc's development.
Older version may accepts more different files which may have corrupt
frame(s), or which may be wrong/illegal file format, in return, the
quality/result may be worse than newer version.
One more point is that nobody develops/fixes older version any more,
so this may be disadvantage in some case.
Newer version may accept less different type of file(s) which are only:
1. decoded properly through right/correct/accurate/specific decoder
2. within certain standard(s) such as MPEG, AVI etc.
In return, the quality/result would be better than older version.
This is how I felt, and using older version is OK I think, if you like it.
The newest version has better support for accepting Mpeg2 files, and the encodeing speed might be slightly better but other than that there isn"t any real differance accept there is a "cut editing" feature in the source range that I don"t think was in the 2.53 version.......
Thanks guys for the info. Sometimes upgrading means new troubles so I'll stick with 2.53 for now. Anyone tried Studio 8 yet? Just go it and will post some comments next week.
Plz help a newbie. I've downloaded an avi file that i want to make into a vcd, but as soon as i try to put it in the video source box, it throws up the message "cannot open or unsupported". (stream type set as system, (video + audio))
any pointers gratefully received as i can only find reference to similar probs with audio, and i havent even got that far yet!
This IS the most Common Question asked hereso it has been answered Hundreds of times , you need to raise the priority of the "Direct show File Reader" in the "Vfapi Plugins" you do thid by going to "options" to "enviromental settings" to "vfapi Plugins" then raise the "direct Show" to "2"......
I am getting the same error "cannot open or unsupported", with "direct Show" set to "2". I have tried 6 or 7 avi files with the same results. I have one avi file that gives me a different error, its "Can't load P3Package.dll" Is this two different issues or are they somehow related?
With versions before 2.54 and before, I was able to open MPEG-2 files and convert them to VCDs (mpeg-1). But with version 2.57, it gives an error that the audio file "can not open or unsupported". Is there a way to restore the old functionality?
Why do you want to encode the audio from a mpeg file?? the audio is allready in the correct format for mpeg , you just de-mux your mpeg file and just encode the video then after encodeing you just mux the audio with the video that was newly encoded...Tmpgenc has never fully supported compressed audio formats, it will encode then sometimes but the chances of and error occuring with the audio is greater..Tmpgenc only Fully supports Wav files...about 30% of the questions that get asked on this BBS are about poeple who encode files and no audio being in the mpeg file because the audio is some form of compressed format......
Quoting M. Bastian:
"More than 75 mins SVCD or 90 mins VCD 16:9 PAL video WONT look good on an 80 mins CD.
4:3 movies need higher bitrate than 16:9 movies.
Forget the kvcd templates."
i encode from perfectly good DV or MPEG2 files to MPEG1 and i always get random glitches, like part of the video might flash green, or jerk for a second (shouldnt happen, i am running 1200mhz pc). any of you guys had a similar problem? the video looks fine before i encode it and then it develops all these artifacts that shouldnt be there...
Yes- it's happened to me too. Are you playing back in Windows Media Player? Try using WinDVD instead. Also, try to decrease your audio bitrate to 128. That worked for me. I'm surprised more people don't report this problem.
I have converted an avi file to mpeg using this then used Nere Express to burn as vcd. When playing in my dvd player -which plays vcd's-I cannot see thew picture but hear only the sound?? Any suggestions???
hmm i had that problem before...
did you use the VCD template in tmpg to encode it? make sure you select the right one... NTSC/PAL etc.
because dvd players are picky when it comes to resolution, bitrate and that i think
The first sugestion is to Watch your movie when you are done encodeing so you know there is a Picture and you don"t waste CD-R"s..There is not going to be a picture if you do not see the movie in the Tmpgenc screen while encodeing, and if there is no picture while encodeing then you need to raise the priority of the "Direct Show File Reader" you do this by going to "options" to "enviromental settings" to "vfapi plugins" then raise the "direct show" to "2"....
>The first sugestion is to Watch your movie when you are done encodeing so you know there is a Picture and you don"t waste CD-R"s..There is not going to be a picture if you do not see the movie in the Tmpgenc screen while encodeing, and if there is no picture while encodeing then you need to raise the priority of the "Direct Show File Reader" you do this by going to "options" to "enviromental settings" to "vfapi plugins" then raise the "direct show" to "2"....
Hi there and thanks for this. Whilst encoding I did NOT see any picture. How and where do I rectify this. When I click on File > Preview I do not see a picture. Is it because their is a problem.The 2 files are AVI's and I have no problem viewing normally.
No.............
but you Can start encodeing another file from were you stoped encodeing then join then together with the "merge & cut" useing the "source range".....
With versions before 2.54 and before, I was able to open MPEG-2 files and convert them to VCDs (mpeg-1). But with version 2.57, it gives an error that the audio file "can not open or unsupported". Is there a way to restore the old functionality?
Why do you want to encode the audio from a mpeg file?? the audio is allready in the correct format so just de-multiplex your mpeg then just encode the video then after just multiplex the audio to the newly encoded mpeg video file, this way the encodeing will be quicker and you will not loose the audio quality that comes with re-encodeing..The older version might have accepted your mpeg audio files but Tmpgenc has never Fully supported compressed audio files, the only audio format the Tmpgenc totally without question supports are Wav files, it is difficult for Tmpgenc to encode compressed audio formats it can do it but the chance of errors in the audio is much greater than with wav files......
Is there a way to get TMPGenc to create an MPEG1 file that uses less than 10 MB/minute? No matter how much I reduce the video and audio bitrates and frame sizes, the resulting file is still the same size (although the video qulaity is obviously affected). All I want to do is cram 2 hours of low quality video onto a CD--- I don't need it to play on a stand alone DVD player.
Or... what's the best way to convert a VOB file directly to non-VCD compliant MPEG1 or a Windows Media file? I know I can convert it to DivX, but I want it to play on any PC without needing the DivX codec.
Well I just started getting in to this, but the way I'm doin it seems to work well. If you want to convert from VOB you have to extract the audio and make an instruction file for tmpgenc basically. I use DVD1AVI which you can get here http://arbor.ee.ntu.edu.tw/~jackei/dvd2avi/ . Which will make a .dv2 file (instruction file) and an audio rip. Tmpgenc needs both of these and then you can create an mpeg1 or mpeg2 audio/video file. Using the wizard just select vcd for mpeg1 or svcd would create mpeg2 file. If you select NTSC film it should allow you to change the bitrate and overall file size on the last setup screen. Just skip the bitrate part and go right to the bottom where it says % of disc to use...set it to 100%. That will automatically adjust the bitrate to what it needs to be. Remember, this only creates the video file...it can not be read on a dvd player without the correct directory structure/files. Which is what you wanted.
What you need to do is under the "system" settings you have to change it to "video-cd non-standard" then Tmpgenc will allow you to make a "non-standard" vcd. without this Tmpgenc will add padding to the file so it won"t go below the Standard vcd bitrate......
PS: the quality of a standard VCD is bad enough so if you lower the bitrare it it will be TERRORABLE, I use more than Double the VCD bitrate and sometimes that isn"t good enough,trying to get more than 1 hour on a cd-r usually results in a Very blocky mpeg file, but I"m a quality freak........
Dont encode in CBR but CQ or 2Pass VBR.
With CQ you cant determine the final filesize without experimenting but its faster and slightly better in quality compared to 2Pass VBR.
I dont encode mpeg1 VCDs anymore since I can get much better quality SVCDs with an video bitrate of aprox 1800 KBit/s aberage. Add 2 160Kbit audio streams that are aprox 60-65 mins film per 80 mins CD.
Global Settings immantent for good compression without degrading the quality to much:
Gop Structure 1-3-3-1-15
Quantize Matrix "higher" than the default TMPGEnc Matrix.(I posted an link to a collection of good Matrixes for different purposes here some time ago ... search for it)
Use FitCD/Avisynth.
If you use CQ or 2Pass: DONT go under 700 Kbit Minimum Bitrate. You player will thank you and your image wont blurr/wobble so much in still scenes. Also enable padding not lower than minimum.
Play whit the CQ Value(Good starting point is 60) until you are satisfied with the quality and you stream fits on the desired number of CDs.
More than 75 mins SVCD or 90 mins VCD 16:9 PAL video WONT look good on an 80 mins CD.
4:3 movies need higher bitrate than 16:9 movies.
Forget the KVCD templates.
Thanks. I used the "non-standard" method at 600 kb/sec and reduced audio to minimum levels. I got over 2 hrs of MPEG1 onto one CD, and the quality was good enough for my purposes.
I'm trying to make an .MPEG from an .AVI and a .wav but i'm getting this message "Index of scan line is out of range (272)" Can anyone tell me what i can do to solve this problem. Thanks