Hope someone can help me here.....

I'm new to this kind of thing, but I've successfully copied from DVD to VCD (I need to be able to play the discs on my stand alone DVD player), using SmartRipper on the DVD, then DVD2AVI to create separate AVI and WAV files, then TMPEnc, and finally burning the VCD using Nero. No problem with that. (although there must be an easier way!)

Now I want to copy some stuff to the same kind of disc format (VCD), but from a VCR. My ATI All-in-Wonder (9000 Pro) card captures it OK from the VCR, in some kind of MPEG format. But whatever I seem to try, using the same media (Sony CD-RW) that worked OK for the DVD to VCD copy, I can't get this into something that my DVD player will play.

I figure that, as the last parts of the chain, if I can get it encoded by TMPEnc and then burned with Nero, it will work. But I can't get from the ATI capture file into something that TMPEnc will work with. I can convert to AVI OK, but then TMPEnc won't recognise that file for the audio. Nero claims to be able to create a VCD from the AVI file, but that didn't work (and it takes forever!)

I can't use DVD2AVI, cos whatever MPEG format its captured in by the ATI card doesn't equate to the MPEG-2 that DVD2AVI wants (vob, mp2, m2c, mpv)...its just mpg, which DVD2AVI won't seem to recognise.

I figure there must be something in the settings of one or more of these programs, or possibly in the ATI capture itself, that I need to tweak, but I can't work it out

Help!!!

Thx
Brian

Yes you are doing everthing wrong.
Firstly when using DVD2AVI you don't need to create an AVI. This is just a waste of time and quality.
You should have selected to create a project file and a wav and then imported these into TMPG.

When using your ATI card to capture to MPEG you have to capture to the right format.
You are probably capturing to MPEG2 which is not VCD compliant and are using all the wrong settings.
VCD has strict standards which you must follow to produce a fully compatible VCD.
To open MPEGs in DVD2AVI you simply have to make sure that the format is MPEG2 then just select 'All files' from the drop down box.

Also NEVER use Nero to encode you MPEGs the result will be awful.

My advice to you is to set up your ATI capture card to capture at full resolution using as high bitrate to MPEG2 then use TMPG to re-encode to MPEG1 VCD.
This will give you the best quality, but if you would prefer to use your card to capture directly to VCD format then follow this guide here:

http://www.dvdrhelp.com/ATI_AIW_Guide.htm

<Firstly when using DVD2AVI you don't need to create an AVI. This is just a waste of time and quality. You should have selected to create a project file and a wav and then imported these into TMPG>

I guess I expressed myself poorly...this is actually what I did do.

<When using your ATI card to capture to MPEG you have to capture to the right format. You are probably capturing to MPEG2 which is not VCD compliant and are using all the wrong settings.>

I just checked the capture settings in the ATI setup, and it was using the inbuilt "Video CD" settings, which are MPEG-1, 352x288, PAL 625, 1.13MBits/sec, with the audio at 44.1. That's correct for VCD, isn't it?

<<My advice to you is to set up your ATI capture card to capture at full resolution using as high bitrate to MPEG2 then use TMPG to re-encode to MPEG1 VCD>>

OK, I've created a custom capture profile, using MPEG-2, 720x576, PAL 625, 1.18 Mbits/sec....is that likely to be OK? I want to be able to get the resulting file (about 50 mins) onto one disc.

One other thing that might be affecting the results. I copied some DVD to VCD last week, and it worked OK, except for one of the discs (there were 10), which won't play in the DVD player. The rest are OK, and all 10 play OK in the drive on the PC. All 10 were copied using exactly the same process, using CD-RW media from the same brand, supplier, and even from the same box. I don't know why one of them wouldn't work, unless the disc itself was somehow at fault. So I re-copied one of the discs that HAD worked onto a new disc (same brand and supplier as before, but from a different batch - and actually the SAME batch that I'm currently having a problem with) and guess what....it won't play. I'm gonna try and re-copy the one that hadn't worked onto a new disk and see if it does - if so, I'm going to be blaming the media rather than the capture format, although that may also not be working OK.

Thanks

Brian

>OK, I've created a custom capture profile, using MPEG-2, 720x576, PAL 625, 1.18 Mbits/sec....is that likely to be OK? I want to be able to get the resulting file (about 50 mins) onto one disc.

No this NOT ok. The bitrate is far to low. The result will be awful. You will end up with a blocky MPEG.
The bitrate should be quite high. If you have enough space on your drive (at least 8 - 10gb) then set the bitrate at something like 8000kb/s or as high as you can get it without dropping frames in the capture.

I use an ATI AIW 8500DV and the Way I do it and get awesome Results From VHS Tapes is to Capture to Mpeg2 useing WinDVR 3 But you can use ATI"s MMC, and set the Capture Bitrate to the Maximum which is 15mb per sec or 15,000kbs and set the Quality slider all the way up to 100% that is if you PC is Fast enough, In WINDVR3 the Bitrate goes all the Way up to 20,000kbs and the Quality is the Best I have seen...Then take the Mpeg file you capture and Load it into DVD2AVI (Choose "All Files" from the Dropdown Menu or Just drag and Drop the Mpeg2 file into the DVD2AVI window as DVD2AVI will Accept mpg files)...Now Just make a D2V project file with DVD2AVI and it will Demux your Audio ,But Just leave the audio for now, Now load the D2V file into Tmpgenc and Make sure the "Stream" setting is set to "Video Only" ,now just encode it with the VCD settings and encode it ,you will be left with a "m1v" Mpeg1 video file, Now just go to "File" to "Mpeg Tools" to "Simple Multiplex" and Load the M1V file you just encoeded in for the Video and load the Audio that DVD2AVI extracted from your Captured File and Load it in for the Audio, then Choose "Video-CD" from the Dropdown Menu then click "Run" and it will join the Audio and Video together into a VCD Compliant Mpeg1 file that you can Burn as a VCD with Nero or some other such Program....good Luck...

Thanks for that...I'm OK up to the streaming options in TmpgEnc, but when I get there, all the options are greyed out, with the button for "audio and video" checked. How do I get to where I can chanage that option to "video only"?

Brian

Thanks for that...I'm OK up to the streaming options in TmpgEnc, but when I get there, all the options are greyed out, with the button for "audio and video" checked. How do I get to where I can chanage that option to "video only"?

Brian

Click the 'Load' button and locate your TMPG template folder. Inside the Template folder is another folder labelled 'Extra' inside is a file called 'Unlock.mcf'
Double click this and all the options will be unlocked.

hi, i was just wondering, once a 2 hour vcd has been encoded with vbr and the bitrate is right and all that, how do you record it to a vcd disc, is it still not the time that matters?

You can only fit 80omb on an 80min disk. If your vcd is latger than 800mb then you will have to split the MPEG.

thats bulls**t! as long as the file is not larger than the disc you have no problem burning it as a vcd. and it even plays in most dvd standalone

So what the hell's your point?

What did I just say or can you not read!

I already said that you can burn up to an 80min disks maximum capacity.
800mb is the maximum capacity on an 80min disk.
If the file is any larger then you will need to split it or do you still not understand the size limitions and characteristics of burning files to disk. Maybe you are some sort of magician and have special way that we would all like to know about of burning larger files than 800mb to an 80min disk, so please share it.

Is it possible to make auto start and endless repeat with the software. It will be usefull for fairs and exibitions.
Mike

Yes it is possible.

I have tried to use TMPGEnc several times to convert AVI to MPEG2 - the process takes 5 or 6 hours but the movie always cuts off after 20 mins or so - and the sound is missing - am I missing an obvious point?

If the Video Cuts off after a While that can usually be fixed By going to "Options" to "Enviromental Settings" to "Vfapi Plugins" and raise the "Direct show File reader" to "2", But if the audio isn"t there then it is Because the Audio format in the AVI file is of a Format that is Not supported by Tmpgenc, You will Need to Evxtact the audio from the AVI file to Wav format and Use that as the audio source in Tmpgenc, you can use Virtual Dub or Even Better use "AVI_MUX" to demux the audio to Wav format...

Hi all,

when I convert avi to svcd it seems that the colour red is missing, people are blue in their faces - that also appears in the previe with tmpgenc. What could the reason for this be? Thanks in advance for helping.

This sounds a Little Like a Well Known Problem with a Codec called "Angel Potion" check you device manager under Video codecs for a Codec called "Angel potion" or it might be under "apmpeg4v3.dll" if you have it Delete it and re-encode the File...But if this is not the Problem you can try Raiseing the priority of the "Direct show" in the Vfapi Plugins, or you Can use the "Advanced Settings" under "Color Correction"(Simple Or Custom) to change the Balance of Colors...

Thanks for your reply, but
- I have no angelpotion on my machine
- already raised directshow to 2

The thing is that it looks fine in tmpg itself, but I am using dvd2svcd with fitcd and autofitcd and with that the preview already looks awful. Any other idea? Anything I am missing? Any other codecs causing trouble, any software missing that is mandatory? Weird. The avi is dvx4 coded, but that shouldn't really matter, right? Thanks again for helping.

regards, Ed

update: just installed CCE as alternative to Tmpg, faces are still blue. Any dvd2svcd specialist around here? Any other hint?

THANKS!

I wanted to burn a VCD last time and I learned to use the overburn method. But I also fooled around with other things and I don't know how to replace it. It's the Status bar under Nero's preferences menu, in "General". What is the default min. that the yellow and red bars be set? I want the default so I'll know when to use the overburn and when not to. Thanks!

Well it a Genius to Figure out when you use Overburning and You don"t need Nero to tell you, When your Mpeg/VCD file is Over say 795-800mb then you will need to use Overburning..But I think the red Line starts at 700mb as that is How Much(In Nero) a CD-R holds...

You can put 800 + 13% on a 800 Mb VCD disc. Error correction is omitted on a VCD because MPEG already takes care of that.
I've burned 1 Gb on a 900 Mb VCD. No problem with nero if your equipment can handle it.

Sory Yeppie But there is No way that you can get 904mb(800+13%) on a single 80Min 700mb CD-R even with OverBurning, I don"t Know about 90min CD-R"s But I know that a 700mb 80min CD-R will Fit Maybe a Max of 830mb but usually closer to 820mb..I can see 700mb +13% but not 800+13%...

@minion: the question was about the status bar in nero. My point is that the bar behaves differently with a VCD or a data cd. The amount of Mb's on the CD cover 74 min/800 Mb is related to data/audio cd content. This content has error checking burned with it. When you choose in nero for a (S)VCD and drop a 800 Mb mpeg file in it the status bar doesn't go all the way to 800 mb but 800-13% =696 Mb. So on a 800 Mb cdrom you can burn 800+13% = 904 Mb mpeg files without overburning. Give it a go. You need nero v5.5.9.14 or higher. Checkout: http://cd-rw.org/software/version_history/nero.cfm

;O)

@Sakuya: defaults are 74:00:0 and 80:00:0

Are you Talking about 700mb 80minute CD-R"s??, If so then you are Totally wrong..I agree you can Fit 700mb+100mb on a CDR in (S)VCD Format, But if you encode a File and Windows says the File is 900mb you are NOT going to be able to Fit it on a 700mb 80min CD-R..and 74 Minute CD-R"s are only 650mb + about 90-100mb for error correction(depending on the Brand/Quality of the CD-R) But if you are Talking about those 90 or 99minute CD-Rs then I"m sure it is Possible, But on a Standard 80min CD-R you aren"t going to get 900mb on it no matter what....

Yes you are right. Slip of the mind. ;O)

>When you choose in nero for a (S)VCD and drop a 800 Mb mpeg file in it the status bar doesn't go all the way to 800 mb but 800-13% =696 Mb. So on a 800 Mb cdrom you can burn 800+13% = 904 Mb mpeg files without overburning.

How the heck did you arrive at this conlusion?

Look it impossible fit anymore than 823mb on most 80 min disks and none will let you burn anymore than 830mb.
The only reason the bar drops down to 696mb from an 800mb MPEG is to take into account the 100mb of error correction parity data which is not needed for MPEGs.
Basically a 700mb disk will allow 700mb + 100mb = 800mb of raw data to be strored on the disk.
Nero takes this into account and adjusts the status bar accordingly.
I think what you mean to say is that Nero will allow you to burn 700mb+ + 13% = 791mb. The 13% being the extra space not required for parity data.

There is absolutely no way you can fit 904mb on any 80 min disk. Not unless you are using one of the new special CDR writers which can actually fit up to 1.5gb on an 80min disks using a higher pit compression technique.

Um...thanks a lot! :D

I have an MPEG2 movie file and at a certain point there's a small glinch and sound gets shifted. I no longer have the original... Is there any way to fix the file or should I just download it again?

Well you Can Try to fix it But it might not work Depending on the Glitch...What you can do is Cut the File exactly were the Glitch happens then take the Out of sync Part of the File and De-Mux it, Then use a Program called "Mpeg2VCR" and use it to Mux the audio and Video Back together But use the "Sync" feature to adjust when the audio Starts and try to sync it up..It will take Some Trial End error to Get right But after syncing it back up you can Join the 2 files back together..The Problem with this is Mpeg2VCR isn"t free ..

yikes, forget it, it's not worth it.. thanx anyway

There is an easy way to find the correct audio skew setting.
Do as minion says and cut the MPEG just after were it goes out of sync then load the part you need to re-sync into VirtualdubMod.
Click streams then select stream list from the menu. Right click on the audio stream and select Interleaving.
Where it says audio skew correction you can add a delay to the audio or remove a delay by putting a minus before the value you set. The delay is in milliseconds, usually around + or - 250 ms is enough to correct sync, but you can check it each time just by clicking the first play button. Once you are happy with the sync just use that value in BBMPEG which is free or MPEG2VCR when you multiplex the audio and video back together after you have demultiplexed it.

Ok, I've got to the point where I have the interleave value... Now how exactly do I "use that value in BBMPEG"? I don't see anywhere to put the value in

Never mind, I downloaded the wrong program...

When I encode some avi files of say 80 minutes, via AviSynth2:

SetMemoryMax(384)
AviFile("h:/video.avi",true)
ConvertToRGB32

using Wizard PAL (TMPGenc Plus latest version) VBR (Highest quality (very slow)) fit to DVD 4.3 Gb (about average 6 mbs), the analysis goes on for 10 hours (remaining time) slowly up to almost 30 hours (remaining time) to stabilize after one hour. Then the first pass ends slowly after 15 hours which is correctly half the 30 hours predicted.

The good new is, the second pass goes flying by at the speed of the video, ie. a little longer than 80 minutes (instead of the predicted 15 hours).

This gives me a total of ca. 17 hours, and curiously, this is the time I needed with the trial version of CCE SP (1950 USD) using the nine pass setting.

Mind you, it is better this way, than the other way round, were the program tells you the encoding will be finished in two hours and the job's not finished after another seven hours.

That is Strange Cuz for me the Pass is Faster than the Encodeing, Not By Much But still a Bit Faster...Just One Little Hint on your Script, You don"t Need to Use RGB32 as RGB32 is Exactly the same as RGB24 But RGB32 has 8 Totally Blank Bits, the Extra Bits do Absolutly Nothing accept Probably Take Longer to Convert from YV12(Or YUY2 if you are Useing a version of AVisynth older than 2.5)..So with RGB24 you will get the same Quality and Cut down on the encodeing Time....Cheers

I'll try RGB24 next time (I still have quite a lot of them to backup).
I made the same experience with a NTSC source of the same length.
I do not activate the preview as it takes a lot longer during encoding.
The sources are LaserDiscs (95% opera therefore not too much mouvements in the picture), captured with S-video with Director's Cut (firewire) and Pinnacle Studio 8.5 producing DV-avi. At the end, the DVD looks almost as good as the LaserDisc (sound has got down a little bit, I can live with that).
When encoding some VHS (or SVHS)I am usually satisfied with the High Quality (slow) motion search precision and have not observed the previously reported behaviour yet, I mean using the newest version of TMGEnc (2.520.54.163) which I managed to download last Saturday Morning (19.7.2003) through the pegasus site, (the tmpgenc site still has the old version (21.07.2003)).

Forgot to mention: the avi-file is on drive H: (big firewire disc), TMPGenc workspace and additional swapspace sit on drive F: (HD of about 13 Gb, with 10 Gb free space), drive C: for the programs, swapspace and the encoded video (m2v + wav/mp2). The encoding (pass two) is really going on fast.
In the Environmental setting, under Cache Setting, the Saves analyzing result of multi pass VBR to cache is selected with a Create cache up to 8192 MB. I understand this cache of 8 Gb is going to the TMPGenc workspace on my drive F: but when I check with the performance manager, I cannot notice much. May be I am missing something there.
This cache buffer is supposed to save the analyzing result of the first pass (a bit like the feature in CCE, and the encoding process should be boosted by using the result at the 2nd (or later !) pass(es). Will there be more passes in the future ?

Jaysus theres nothing like overkill is there!

I really don't think it's necessary to have so many optimizations enabled.
For a start off 9 pass?!
Did you never hear that it's commonly realised in most encoding forums that you don't get any benefit at all with half decent sources after 4 passes. Even at 4 it's very much doubtful you'll see any difference from a 3 pass.

RGB32? I'm not sure about this one because as I understand it TMPG and it's filters work in RGB32, so using the ConvertToRGB32 command is ok.


Next the Highest quality setting in TMPG?
It is well known by most TMPG experienced encoders that there is no benefit over the High quality setting in TMPG except for doubling the encode time.

Anothert point is that 2 pass isn't always best. It usually Constant Quality(CQ) which gives the better results with good sources such as laser disk and seeing as you will be using a high bitrate anyway because you are encoding to DVD then using all the above is simply a waste of time.

When you have a good source and are encoding to a high enough bitrate all these optimizations aren't necessary and actually can sometimes make the result worse.
Don't ask me why because I don't want to go into a big explanation as to the reasons of why using something like the motion search precision on highest is not the best for some sources.

Do yourself a favour and cut some of these out and save yourself some time. Your results may look good, but you could probably obtain the same results with less overkill.
Remember sometimes less is more.

Your "DV-avi" is probably a 4:1:1 color format and should be avoided.

Resampling 4:1:1 color to 4:2:0 during Mpeg encoding, results in a 50% loss of color samples. (Both have 4:1 luma-to-color sample ratios but the conversion ends up being 8:1.)

Capture using Huffyuv Lossless Codec which is 4:2:2. Buy an analog capture card if necessary.

A lot of magazines recommend running SVHS and Hi8 quality analog material through a DV conversion step but that just means they value ease-of-use over quality.

Thanks, I will try all this.

I encoded divx file using avisynth script to add subtitle through textsub.

I prepared script and loaded with TMPGenc SVCD template.

Then encoding with subtitle ended succesfully but when I tried to burn it with Nero. It checked mpeg-2 stream and showed error message.

What is problem?

Thanks.

Kisoo

You Probably Encoded The File as a 480+480/576-Pal Mpeg 2 file and Not a SVCD File, You can"t just encode the File as a Mpeg2 file that has the Same Resolution and Audio Format and Frequency as a SVCD, As that is Just a Mpeg2 file that has the Same resolution ECT..The Mpeg2 file also Has to have a SVCD Header on the File so if you encode the File as Just a Mpeg2 file with SVCD Charicteristics you will get an error something Like "The Stream was not encoded as SVCD" or Something Like that in Nero..When you encode the File in tmpgenc you have to make sure that the "System" setting is set to "Super-VCD" or it will Just encode a Plain Mpeg2 file..You can Easilly fix this By Loading the File into Tmpgenc"s "Merge & Cut" and Choose "Super Video-CD" from the Drop down Menu and Click "Run", This will Make a New File that Has the Proper Header for SVCD....

Thanks a lot!

Kisoo

Oops!

I tried TMPGEnc mpeg-tool 'merge-cut' function to fix svcd format problem. It doesn't work for me.

Any idea?

Well, what is the error message you are getting?

Well it is Probably because there is Something else wrong with the File, If the File is 480+480/576-pal and Mpeg2 and Has Mpeg1 Layer 2 audio at 44100hz has a SVCD Header and the Bitrate is Under 2500kbs for the Video then it should be SVCD Compliant..Yes, What exactly is the error that nero is Giveing you..Have you tried to Burn it anyways??

Nero says 'it's not svcd' and doesn't proceed.

Hi

I'm using AVI2SVCD, TMPGenc, BBMPEG, etc to convert divx to svcd.

Sometimes I meet muxing problem with BBMpeg. Though I set max size of SVCD mpeg-2 file, it just stops at the end of the first file around 794Mbytes with error message 'Couldn't find user data at 3133 i-frame'.

Here are my questions;

1. How can I solve this problem?

2. TMPGenc has multiplexing tool. Can I give option with time or size of each Muxed mpeg-2 file(such as max 795Mbytes) in case that original source size exceeds 1.3g or time exceeds 1hr 30 mins?

Thanks.

Kisoo

No you can not set the Time or Max File size in the Muxer in Tmpgenc But you Can just cut your File in Half with the "Merge & Cut"...I do not Know any reason why you are Getting the error that you are, as I have never experienced it But Since Tmpgenc"s Muxer is Made For files encoded By Tmpgenc you will Probably not get the error with It...

I use BBMPEG for muxing all my SVCD's and never have a problem.
Either you are encoding your MPEGs incorrectly or are not setting BBMPEG properly when muxing or maybe you have an older buggy version.

Thanks.

I have the latest version of BBMpeg for muxing consecutively into intended file size or time.

I wonder it has any any problem with my cpu...I use duron 1.2G.

May I have a set of parameters which I can use for svcd's from big sized video and audio file?

Thanks.

Kisoo

There are no special settings required. Just select SVCD as the 'program stream setting' and put '0' in the 'Forced mux rate' box

Can the mole vcd (MVCD) templates (www.molevcd.de) become a part of TmpgEnc in the future?

Chhers,

Hendrik

Get real. Why in the hell should TMPG inlude third party templates?
I think you have little and no chance of this happening.

In any case what's so special about these templates?
Nothing except for a change in the bitrates as far as I can see.

How else can you get 3 hours of VHS quality movie on a 800 Mb CD?

@Ashy:

Do you think people create a website when only the bitrate is different?
Perhaps you should take a second look. ;O)

Cheers.

They Are Very Simular to those KVCD Templates, I have Tried them As I Like to Try anything That Claims to Get up to or over 2 hours on a CD-R(Never saw a Template that Gets 3 hours) They Use An Extended and Modified Gop Structure and Matrix, But Like anything that claims that they get 2(Or 3 in your Case) hours on a CD-r with VHS Quality is Usually overstated, as at 3 hours on a CD-R you would need an average Bitrate of 475kbs and No Gop structure or Matrix can make 3 hours look like a VHS Tape at 475kbs ,as a Regular VCD is Only VHS Quality Or Probably less, But I suppose a untrained eye on a Small TV Might Find it watchable..Pluss with the GOP structure that these Templates use they Have Very Few I Frames which Makes the VCD allmost impossible to Accurately chapter and Edit, and Not all Players will Play them especially with the Long Gop and Low Bitrate..But I"m probably Spoiled as I am a Quality Freek and Will Not(I actually Cant cuz it is so anoying) Watch a Movie that has even the Slightest Hint of Blockyness which with these Templates there is a LOT Of Blockyness especially when there is a Lot of Movement, even Regular Standard VCD"s Have to Much Blockyness for me...Cheers

I've just done a conversion from 2x700 Mb Divx avi to 1 800 Mb VCD Mpeg-1 (Betty Blue, Editors cut- 179 min). And I'm a quality freak as wel. I'll take a look at those KVCD Templates.

The only thing you have to be cautious about is not to set the quality to high for a given bitrate. I use CQ 65 with 2250/270. I don't use 2-pass VBR.

I don't use MPEG-2 since not everyone can play that AVSEQ01.DAT file.

It's pretty good quality (depending on the source avi) and on 1 CD, playable on PC and DVD.

It's a tradeoff between quality, portability and convenience.

Look, what you may call good quality and what I call good quality probably belong to 2 different worlds.

There is no way I would ever put a regular whole movie on one disk never mind a 3 hour one.

All my movies are MPEG2 and split between 2 disks and the quality is excellant (near DVD).
For the sake of switching a disk half way through the movie is it really worth watching a bag of crap for 2 hours just because it's on one disk.
These templates my be ok for those that like watching garbage, but I'm a quality freak and that's what is more important to me. I'm the same as minion, I hate blockiness.
People are always impressed with the movies I create, but I doubt I'd get the same reaction using these templates.

I did many tests a long time ago with the very similar KVCD templates and found that regarding file size V quality they still couldn't beat a correctly tweaked CCE.

If you like 'em then use 'em, but I think it's very unlikely any kind of third party template will ever be included with TMPG because they are just not standard and could lead to compatibilty troubles.

Regarding the changes made to the actual templates, the ones I downloaded only had a change in the bitrates and a different matrix. There was nothing really special done to the GOP layer.

Well I just wnnt and Downloaded the Newest MoleVCD 2.5 templates Cuz It"s Been a While since I have Tried them and Did a Little Test, and I was surprised that at such a Low Bitrate that The Quality was OK, But definately Not Good, watching it was Like there was a swarm of Mosquitos flying in Front of the Screen..and the Gop Is Made up of 20 P frames 1 I Frame and 3 B frames allmost exactly like the Kvcd templates with a Min Bitrate of 275kbs and a Max of I think 2750kbs, they even have a Mpeg1 720+480 template that Uses the Exact same Gop and Bitrates and the Quality of those Tests were Just awefull..But the Differance from these Templates and a standard VCD isn"t that Dramitic in Quality So I"d say that these Templates are Pretty Good if your Goal was just to get as Much on a CD-R, and I suppose for Most poeple they are Watchable But definately not for me....Cheers

Although 2.520 is posted as being available - the link still points to older 2.513. Please correct this!

Download here:
http://tmpg.pegasys-inc.com/download_files/TMPGEnc-2.520.54.163-Free.zip

Thank you. That worked.