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This board is great - maybe someone can help me with a problem that has been nagging me for awhile --
I go through a VOB file --> DVD2AVI ---> TMPGENC ---> 29.97 fps VCD process to reencode my DVD captures (from a DVD recorder) to VCD. When I look at the results in VirtualDub - it's obvious that the video has been telecined since there is a mixed frame every 4 frames or so. Most of the video I'm processing is animated stuff.
So then I went back and used the inverse-telecine function on TMPENC (using normal VCD (not film VCD) template, that is, 30 fps) and the mixed frames go away and the resultant video looks good to me. Everything that I've read so far says that if you use inverse-telecine, you should be encoding at 24 fps (film VCD) not 30 fps. But I want 30 fps NTSC video because I want to be able to swap clips with other people and I want good DVD player compatibility.
I'd like some advice on the best thing to do to get 30 fps NTSC video.
(A) Should I just leave the inverse-telecine function alone. The playback with the encodes that contain the mixed frames doesn't seem that bad to me but maybe others will think it sucks. The only way I can tell is to look at the video frame by frame.
(B) Should I use inverse-telecine but use the 30 fps template. It seems OK but there might be some drawback that I'm not aware of. I read that the video could be "jumpy" but I haven't seen that.
(C) Should I do something else
I believe you need to a 3:2 Pulldown to convert from 24 to 30,
I use the force film setting in DVD2AVI to encode to film, but if you dont use that just load the VCD template for NTSC(not NTSC Film)
Let me explain what IVTC is. IVTC is a process of reversing telecined footage which has had 3:2 pulldown added to create a 29.97 interlaced movie.
IVTC will return this 29.97 movie back to it's original 23.976 progressive source.
The reason for this is that progressive sources do not suffer from interlacing artifacts and are easier to encode.
The best way to acheive this is to use the ForcedFilm option with DVD2AVI. This will return a 29.97 interlaced movie back to a 23.97 progressive movie.
Once you have done this you then use the '3:2 pulldown when playback' option in TMPG, but this option only works for MPEG2 not MPEG1. Choose the 'SuperVideoCD (NTSCFilm).mcf' and all the correct options for turning a 23.97 source into a 29.97 will be set for you.
Regarding the fact you are attempting to convert to MPEG1 VCD you cannot use the 3:2 pulldown option so IVTC is pointless therefore the best option is to simply leave the source at 29.97 and just re-encode using the same framerate, but de-interlace the source.
This will remove artifacts and should give a reasonable image quality when re-encoded.
when I used the de-interlace option, the mixed frames were still apparent
I don't want a 24 fps video, I want 30 fps -
I just wanted to mention that if I don't use "force film" in DVD2AVI and use the standard VCD template for encoding (except selecting the inverse-telecine option) is seems to make a very nice VCD compliant video with the mixed frames gone. But, since my wires are crossed, I wanted to know what the negative effects of this was. For instance, would the video be "jumpy" because inverse-telecine is removing every fourth or fifth frame? It didn't appear so when I looked at the video.
Having said all of that, I really don't mind the mixed frames being in the video. It doesn't appear to significantly affect the quality. But some guy I was swapping files with was highly critically of those frames being in the video - so I wanted to try to produce a better product.
If you use IVTC and return the movie back to 24 fps then encode to 30 fps you will surely have jerky playback, most noticible in panning shots.
The 24 fps movie will play fine, but because TMPG does not do correct framerate conversion the playback of the 30 fps MPEG WILL be jerky.
As far as the de-intelacing goes I would like to know which option you used as I don't think you de-interlaced correctly as there should have been no interlaced frames apparant.
To clarify and make sure I understand this myself:
Film material is stored on most commercial DVDs at 29.97fps but contains "repeat field flags". This looks like interlaced video to low priced players but allows progressive players to easily recover the original frames without relying on adaptive inverse 3:2 pulldown which is inherently error prone .
DVD2AVI in "forced film" mode also uses "repeat field flags" to delete the unecessary fields and output the true original video at 23.976fps.
We simply need to reverse the process when reencoding in TMPG and this is where the "3:2 pulldown when playback" setting comes in. It says to encode progressively at 23.976fps but repeat fields to pad the result up to 29.97 and insert the flags. No need to mess with anything in the "Advanced" menu.
If the original material was from analog capture or is missing the repeat field flags, use DVD2AVI->VFAPIConv to serve the material into Virtualdub for adaptive inverse 3:2 pulldown (Frame Rate... menu). Or use TMPG's "Advanced" function (if you can figure it out). NEVER deinterlace 29.97 film material. Two of five frames end up irreversably munged.
One note ATI Radeon AIW owners doing analog capture: Realtime MPEG capture has an "Inverse Telecine" option which I originally thought was broken because it produced 29.97fps. But it actually does a nearly flawless insertion of repeat field flags! Laser Disc material, captured at 15Mbs, and reencoded as described above to DVD bitrates produce amazing results.
Can anybody tell me how to convert DIVX 5 to a wave[PCM audio]format so I can encode my movie? I've tried with virtual dub, but it won't let me do it. Am I doing something wrong? Please let me know what I can do to encode my movie.
I have an ogg vorbis/DIVX file to encode and TMPGEnc won't let me encode it. It keeps giving me an error message saying "error occurred when ACM was initialized"....it has something to do with the audio part(I think)...what does this mean and how can I get around this to encode this movie? Somebody please tell me what I have to do to get this resolved!
It sounds like one of 2 things..1)You are encodeing to a Different frame rate than the source file.You have to Capture at 25FPS and encode at 25FPS if you are going to make a Pal-VCD..#2)is the Field Order is Set incorrectly, This won"t apply to you CuZ you are Making a VCD which uses progressive frames and so does Pal..and it is Unlikely that you dropped Frames durring capture from your DV Cam Cuz it doesn"t happen that often with DV But it is Possible ,This can cause Jumpy Playback..But I"m sure that the problem is that you encoded to a different frame rate than your DV/AVI file..You Can Not use Tmpgenc to do Frame rate conversions if this is what you tried intentionally..
Thanks so much for the replies. I am not an expert in movie-making so it is hard to understand technical terms.
Here is what I did:
1.Recorded a movie on Sony Mini-DV camcorder in NTSC format.
2.Converted this movie into AVI file using Windows MovieMaker software (with default settings of DV-AVI and 30frames/sec which I can not change)
3. Use TMpgenc to convert this AVI into a mepg file to make a PAL-VCD. For this I am using following setting:
- Load VideoCD (PAL).mcf
- In Settings->Video tab, everything is grayed-out
- In Settings->Advanced tab, I get following settings
Non-interlaced (progressive)
Top field first (field A)
4:3 525 line (NTSC, 704x480)
Full screen (keep aspect ratio)
All other options below UNCHECKED
With thess settings I get jumpy movie.
BUT WAIT. When I check the box for "Do not frame rate conversion" then I DO NOT GET JUMPY PICTURE anymore !!!
Shall I proceed with these setting and make a PAL VCD ? Will it work ?
>>1.Recorded a movie on Sony Mini-DV camcorder in NTSC format.
o.k. you've recorded in NTSC
>>2.Converted this movie into AVI file using Windows MovieMaker software (with >>default settings of DV-AVI and 30frames/sec which I can not change)
o.k.
>>3. Use TMpgenc to convert this AVI into a mepg file to make a PAL-VCD. For >>this I am using following setting:
>>- Load VideoCD (PAL).mcf
why dou you use the PAL template ?? your video was recorded in NTSC. use the VideoCD (NTSC).mcf.
You aren"t getting a Jumpy picture when you check the "Do not Frame rate Convert" because then you are encodeing to NTSC and it isn"t converting the frame rate to Pal so the Actuall Frame rate of the Mpeg with that setting will be 29.9/30fps and will not be a Pal Movie..And there is No need to convert the DV to AVI doing this will just make you loose Quality...There are a Couple Programs that will convert the "29.9/30fps" DV/AVI file to a "25fps" Pal DV/AVI file without the Jumpyness, then you can encode the DV/AVI file to a Pal VCD/SVCD...But these Programs Take a Bit of an Investment, one is called "Advanced NTSC/Pal Converter" and another one is called "ProCoder"..And there is an AVISYnth Command that will do the conversion for you But useing AVISYnth takes a bit of experience to use it, but it is Free...So Basicly if you use the "Do Not Frame Rate Convert" option then you will not have a Pal File....
I am giving up and in hurry too :-) I think the easier way for me is to convert NTSC Video Cassettes to PAL and then making VCDs (from professional shops).
Thanks a lot to all for your replies and tips. It was great having the chat. Hopefully I will join back sometime in future...
maybe you don't have to burn a PAL VCD when the DVD Player supports NTSC playback. Well I'm living in Germany and we're having PAL, too. I've bought myself some NTSC DVD's and played them on my player (it's codefree :-). It works fine.
If your player is code free then it is likely your player is not doing any conversion to PAL, but is simply outputting an NTSC signal. This means you must have a multiformat T.V. to handle the signal.
Not everybody has a multiformat T.V. and will therefore not be able to play NTSC disks correctly.
ok i just up-graded to 2.58plus and now when i try to record, i get an error saying the avi files are unsupported. i raised the direct show level to 2 and that has not fixed the problem.also during the recording process, i get no picture and no sound(i have all of the current plug-ins).
can someone help me
Do you have the proper codecs installed???Have you tried Re-installing Tmpgenc and the Vfapi Plugins?? Have you tried to frame serve any files with V-Dub and see if that works??
I have been using this wonderful program for a month or so and recently the "end of free trial" screen has been showing up. I assumed that this was for MPEG2 and that MPEG1 conversions would still work. I just went to edit/split a .mpg file into 2 and the result was a file unrecognizable by windows. It doesnt even have a file extension. The size is correct and i have done this many times before with perfect results. So my question. Has the entire program stopped working due to the free trial limit? Or should i look for antother problem? Thanks, Gary
The Mpeg1 should still work forever..and the editor should work also accept for Mpeg2 files...It was probably just one of the many glitches in the "Mpeg Tools"...
>I have been using this wonderful program for a month or so and recently the "end of free trial" screen has been showing up. I assumed that this was for MPEG2 and that MPEG1 conversions would still work. I just went to edit/split a .mpg file into 2 and the result was a file unrecognizable by windows. It doesnt even have a file extension. The size is correct and i have done this many times before with perfect results. So my question. Has the entire program stopped working due to the free trial limit? Or should i look for antother problem? Thanks, Gary
Ok, thanks, I'll try renaming the file. I never had this glitch before and have cut files into 2 many times. But thanks, anyway. Just wanted to make sure that the fee trial didnt end the use of all the program
For most of the X-VCDs (mpeg1) I create from NTSC DVD source, the resulting average bitrate (reported at the end of the TMPGEnc log) is usually a lot lower than the average I set it for (VBR mode). Example, for Panic Room with min=500, Avg=2100, Max=4500, target = 352x240, the actual average may be 700-800 kbps.
The resulting picture quality isn't great. Anyone else seen this?
First off Useing "Multi-Pass" with a DVD source isn"t going to give you better Quality ..The CQ Setting with a DVD Source will give you the same or better Quality without haveing it takeing forever to encode...Don"t use the Encodeing Log to determine the bitrate structure ,Use a Bitrate viewer which will give you a Much better picture of the Average and Max bitrates....and raiseing the Min bitrate might help...
I am trying to make a vcd, but whenever I try to burn it with Nero, it says"stream encoding which is invalid for a [Super] Video Cd." What do I need to do different in tmpg to fix this? I think it may have something to do with the rate control mode which I have set on constant quality, highest quality and pumped up max and min bitrates(im not worried about file size, and want best quality)...but i dont really know. thank you for any help you have to offer.
This sounds like it could be a Header problem...Try Running the Mpeg1 file through the "Multiplex" or "Merge & Cut" with the "Video-CD Non-Standard" setting in the dropdown menu...This will put the correct header on the file...And if the audio isn"t 44100hz and at 224kbs you will get this error also....
The is no File size Limit in Tmpgenc..Well I have done files up to and over 4gb and the only simit would be your disk format(Fat or NTFS) and you disk size...
she downloaded an avi file who at first had the sound but not the picture, after running it thru gspot she found and installed the missing codec who solved that problem.
After converting it with TMPGEnc, though, she now has another problem since the file, who's picture is ok, only has sound for the first 12 seconds or so.
She tried the multiplex option without success.
Can anyone help please?
She Needs to Extract the audio from the AVI file to WAV format with something like "Virtual Dub" or "Sound Forge" and use the WAV file as the audio source...