hi,
i use tmpgenc, but i didn't find out the correct settings for svcd to fit a cd correctly...hope you know what i mean, my english is not so good...

when i use a bitrate calculatort, and use cinemacraft i always get the correct size for the endmovie...
with tmpgenc the files always are shorter...
example: cinemacraft = 798 mb
tmpgenc = 700 mb
(for svcd)...

this is a diffrent bout 100mb and i use the same settings (2-pass) for both programms...just cce has the correct size the calculator told me..

okay, example:
encoded with tmpgenc 2min04sec (for a test)

standard template with wizzard (2pass - avarage 2200, max 2520, min 300)
should be 36,72mb (said tmpgenc...)
real: 32,4mb

next try 2-pass, avarage 2200, max 2520 min 1200 enable padding)
same as the first, 32,4mb

changed gop from 1,7,2,1 (standard tmpgenc) to 1,5,2,1
= same settings as 2nd
= 33,5mb

test with cce
2pass, av 2200, min 1200, max 2400
= 37,15mb

so it seems to be a gob problem...
anyone good sites for learning about gop?

I doubt this is a GOP problem. The size difference from 32.4mb to 33.5mb is probably due to the fact you have changed the GOP structure from 1,7,2,1 to 1,5,2,1.
What you have done is decreased the amount of 'P' frames and shortened the GOP size which in turn is going to create more 'I' frames because there will be more GOPS in the MPEG and seeing as 'I' frames require more bitrate and don't compress as well as 'P' frames the 1.1mb increase is understandable.

ASHY

In addition to above.

The default GOP structure of CCE uses 1,4,2,1 = 15 frames in a GOP.
With TMPG 1,7,2,1 = 24 frames and the default setting for SVCD is 1,5,2,1 = 18 frames.

Looking at the above figures and the explanation in the previous post you can see there will be more GOPs and therefore more 'I' frames in the CCE encoding thus increasing the file size.

ASHY

big thx...
changed to settings from cce (1,4,2)...
now i will change the max number offrames to 15
(default was 0)...
hoping to fit the cd in the future correctly...

but i don't understand the max number of frames..is 15 the correct setting?
i don't want to make svcds with high compression, i want to get the best quality for svcd...

Ok I have been looking into this problem and here are some observations.

Using the Project Wizard:
Firstly I used your settings for a 2.04 min clip - 2-pass, average 2200, max 2520 min 1200 enable padding - to create an MPEG with TMPG.
The audio was set at a bitrate of 224 kb/s ( for some reason in v2.58 the bitrate is set out of standard at 128kb/s)

TMPG reported the final size as 36.2mb the actual size was 35.8mb, so you can see TMPG was pretty close.

Observing the GOP structure which TMPG set for this was 1,5,2,1

Using the same settings for both CCE and TMPG:

2-pass, average 2200, max 2520 min 1200 enable padding
GOP = 1,4,2,1
audio bitrate = 224

Results:

TMPG = 35.8 MB
CCE = 36.2mb

It seems somewhere along the line there is a miscalculation on your part or a setting wrong.
As you can see the TMPG and CCE results are more or less the same.

ASHY

thx, but i can't see the gop-settings of cce...they're named other
like N, N/M...??!!
the settings of cce are N:3 N/M:5 gopheader every (locked) 1, SEQ Header 1..

and maybe it's because i'm using tmpgenc and cce for pal-svcds? (i'm german...)
so i always use 480x576, non-interlace/progressive (also in advandec mode)
16:9 (for most dvds)

my next test was the same film with the same length (it's "nothing to lose" - one of my favourite films) the biginning of the film, it starts with movie...

2.04min (3121 frames)
(i will cut him later at 47:30) and will put it on a 700mb (80min) disk, so the bitrate calc gave me 2088)
i used 2pass, avarage 2050, max 2400 min 1200 enable padding, max pass 2-pass, video format pal, non-interlace, yuv 4:2:0, dc 10, motion high quality
advanced progressive, field b, 16:9, fullscreen (audio 224...)
gop 1, 4,2,1 max number of frames in gop 15

result: 31,7mb

saved as a tpr, used vfapi reader codec for frameserving (no audio, doing it with tmpgenc ;_) and loaded it in cce 2.64, settings mpg2 multipass -2pass av: 2050, min 1200, max 2400 (gop settings as written, 3,5...?)

result (after multiplexing with tmpgenc): 34,2mb !!!

if i calculate these results for 47:30 (2850seconds)

tmpgenc about 729mb for 47,30min
cce about 786mb !! and that's what i want to have with tmpgenc...
and that's what the bitrate calc told me...

so there MUST be something wrong with my settings...?? !!
help again?

First of all if you know how to frameserve to CCE from TMPG why would you want to encode in TMPG.
CCE is better at MPEG2 encoding and quicker.

Secondly, if you are encoding from DVD to MPEG2 then your source and output should be set to interlaced not progressive unless you have used ForcedFILM in DVD2AVI.

As for your differences in file size I can't really see the problem. I'm using v2.510 of TMPG.

As for CCE the default audio setting is 256 kb/s. This should be changed to 224kb/s

Also CCE has a default VBV buffersize of 224 which can't be changed.
This will have a slight effect on the file size also if it's not set the same in TMPG.


ASHY

i'm using tmpgenc because cce cost so much, or could you sent me a free version? ;-) i just wanna test cce if its really soooo good, but i can't see any different between tmpgenc and cce encoded films...

and the svcds i made with tmpgenc are really great...
but i want to optimize my settings with tmpgenc...

with dvd2avi i only encode the sound (amd multiplex it tmpgenc) and for pal all settings are progressive (or not?)..

>with dvd2avi i only encode the sound (amd multiplex it tmpgenc) and for pal all settings are progressive (or not?)

DVD2AVI cannot encode sound except to a wav, so how are you encoding the audio.
How are you importing your DVD's into TMPG for encoding if you are not using DVD2AVI?

As for PAL. PAL is an interlaced format used in Europe just as NTSC is an interlaced format used in the US.

The only time your output should be progressive is if you are creating VCD all other formats such as DVD,SVCD require to be interlaced if the intended output is TV.

ASHY

creating wav file with dvd2avi and put it as audio souce, then say "audio only" and convert it to mp2 file...

and german dvds ARE progressive...

Right Frasier it seems you know little about the DVD format or MPEG2 encoding.

Let me explain.

DVD has to conform to the standard as set by the 'DVD Forum' and the
'Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG) ISO/IEC JTC1/SC29 WG11'

Almost all DVDs are stored as progressive, but playback as interlaced which is required by the DVD standard.

Now I'll tell you why.

DVD's have a process called 'telecining' or 3:2 pulldown applied to them. In short what this does is add flags to a DVD encoding to tell the player to repeat a sequence of fields every second, this converts a 24/23.976 fps progressive movie to a 29.97 fps NTSC interlaced movie as required by the NTSC TV standard.

PAL movies have a similar process but uses 24:1 pulldown with 4% speed up.

Both of these processes require each progressive frame to be split into fields so the fields can be repeated by the player. 2 fields make up 1 frame this is what we refer to as interlacing.

Without the frames being split into fields and thus interlaced the process would not work.

DVD2AVI can remove the 3:2 pulldown flags and return the interlaced movie back to it's progressive state by using it's ForcedFILM option.
For a PAL movie this is not required even though it is interlaced as the sequence of fields does not shift unlike the fields in an NTSC movie using 3:2 pulldown.


Here is a clip from the Distronics DVD and MPEG2 encoding specs page.
Pay particular attention to the last paragraph which is highlighted.

MPEG-2 Video Encoding
The MPEG-2 specification (ISO 13818) was designed for broadcast TV and
other applications using interlaced images. It provides higher picture quality
than MPEG-1 but using a higher data rate. At lower bit rates, MPEG-2
provides no advantage over MPEG-1. At higher bit rates (above about 4
Mbits/s) MPEG-2 should be used in preference to MPEG-1. Unlike MPEG-1,
MPEG-2 supports interlaced TV systems and Vertical Blanking Interval (VBI)
signals.
MPEG-2 also allows variable bit rate (VBR) for lower bit rates without loss of
picture quality. VBR encoding uses more data to code those parts of a video
sequence which are more complex and do not compress well. CBR, constant
bit rate, encoding, means that the video data rate must be high enough to
encode the video well. For short videos, where disc capacity is not an issue,
CBR, at as high a bit rate as possible, is the better choice.

>MPEG-2 uses the same frame types as MPEG-1 except that each frame
comprises two interlaced fields. Also each group of pictures (GOP) is 15 (PAL)
or 18 (NTSC) frames in length maximum.

I hope now you understand.

ASHY

Here is some nice info on 3:2 pulldown.

http://www.dlpstore.com/techguide/pulldown_2.asp?page=3

uh thx,
ok, source progessive...encode interlace...

Unless you have used the ForcedFilm option or IVTC (NTSC only) then both your input and output should be set to Interlaced in TMPG.
Even though DVD's are stored as progressive frames on the disk the actual output will be interlaced because of the pulldown.

ASHY

Here is proof that your DVD is interlaced.

Download this program and load one of your VOBs into it.
It will tell you all the details you need to know of the file.

http://www.tecoltd.com/bitratev.htm

ASHY

What are correct setting to make sure that when you encode your file will work for a VCD. Every time I encode a .WMV file i either get a wrong frame rate or size or system clock reference. Thanks in advance

Just load the correct VCD template and encode.

ASHY

When I use simple De-multiplex to convert the AVSEQ01.DAT from CD to a mpeg1 and audio file. I do not get the whole movie. This happens in Win2K. I tried it in Win98 and I don't have that problem. I am running TMPGEnc 2.51 plus. What gives?

Try makeing the Dat into a Mpeg file with something like VCDEasy or VCDGear then De-Muxing the Mpeg file in tmpgenc..

here is my q: i got a movie from a someone approx 135 min long and all was on 1 cd, i was informed they used tmpg to encode it. when i convert using tmpg i can only get approx 75 min movie on 1 cd. are there any options i can change to compress and fit a 2 hr movie on only 1 disc? thanks

There is No way to Get 135 min on 1 CD-R and have it even close to Watchable..You are relegated to useing at least 2 CD-R"s and there is Now way around it...

i have proof right in my hand, the movie is dead ringers and it is almost as good as watching a dvd,and the whole movie is there.

LOL...I think an eye check would be appropiate here.

I agree with minion. No way can a movie 135mins long on 1 cd be anywhere near the quality of DVD.

I have been in this game for many years and know practically every aspect of encoding. I'm well aware of so called tweaked templates such as KVCD which promise a whole movie on 1 cd with near DVD quality.

Apart from it being damn near physically imposssible (unless KVCD know something that the hundreds of experts in the 'MPEG pictures group' don't know) I have often tried out these templates and observed the results, and while sometimes good results can be had, none of them are anywhere near DVD quality unless you are looking at it from the other side of the street or through a frosty window.

It seems you don't have an eye for quality or what quality means in MPEG encoding. MPEG quality isn't only about what seems to be a good image at first glance, but other factors such as the blockiness of the movie, it's sharpness and resolution and vividness. Non of which can possibly be created to a high standard with a full movie on 1 cd.

What you may think is high quality is probably a far cry from what the rest of us with trained eyes finds high quality and I'm sure in a side by side comparison if you knew what to look for you would change your mind.

ASHY

I guess Quality is in the eye of the Beholder but even the best Quality VCD will still have less than 1/4 the Defitition of a DVD Just because of the Fact that VCD uses 1/4 the resolution of a DVD.And at the Low bitrates needed to Put 2+ hours on a CD-r that makes the bitrate less than 1/10 that of a DVD and No filters or Tweaks can make up for that,But I guess that Some poeple can easily watch low Quality VCD"s without a Problem were I would Get anoyed By every little Flaw in the Picture..If you want to Try it your self then load the "Unlock.mfc" template from the "Extra" Folder then you will be able to Lower the Bitrate as Low as you like..to put 135 minutes on a CD-R you will have to lower the Bitrate down to about 650kbs that is if you also lower the audio bitrate down to 128kbs..

I have a major problem,all of a sudden any file I try to encode is automaticly set to fullscreen. I have tried changing the video arrange method and any thing else I could think of. Shoot I even deleted and redownloaded and that didn't work,also I even tried an older version that didn't do the trick either. Look I am at a complete loss and would appreciate an assistancein this matter. I have been using tmpgenc for over a year and haven't had any problems short of the usual, and I am also aware of vcdhelp.com and their help guides. I checked there and came up with a dead end. So now this is my last hope.
I look forward to hearing from ANYBODY who can help. Thanx
Any response can be sent to kakarot76@excite.com or post here.

What resolution size is the file, which input aspect ratio are you choosing and which arrange method did you select?

ASHY

hi.
i made a svcd mpg file with the tmpgenc program. i used the 2-pass method. all works. but then when i want to cut the file to 2 parts with Merge&Cut then i cant do that. i load that mpg file into the program but nothing happens then (the time controller didnt change the color to blue and i cant move the pointer)
but this happens only with mpg files i made.
how can i repair this probelem? please help me out!

some infos:
win xp
nimo codec pack installed (without Morgan Multimedia Stream Switcher)
divx codecs bundle 5.02
direcx 9
powerdvd

First off the "Merge & Cut" does not support the Acurate Mergeing or Cutting Mpeg files that are encoded with a VBR stream like the File that you have encoded with the 2 pass method...you should try a Real mpeg editor like "Womble Mpeg2VCR"......

I got nearly the same Problem. Whatch here!

http://bbs.pegasys-inc.com/bbscgi/ebbs/board.cgi?board=tmpgenc&page=2#topic19761

I am desperate and at nervous breakdown point after 3 days on this....

I have a set of Avi files which I'd like to have on VCDs. I downloaded TMPGE and converted the first to MPG: it worked beautifully. I was VERY happy.
I then attempted with the others but ALL would tell me unsupported file. I then raised the environmental setting for directshow to 1 then 2 the 3....TMPGE now accepts the files but when I click to encode it has an error and shuts down without any message. I then downloaded LsxMpeg encoder to see if it was a TMPGE problem, and Lsx would not accept the files at all (like TMPGE before raising the directshow setting) complaining about codecs problem. I then went to the MS site and downloaded the latest codecs pack and media player 9. All the files play perfectly in media player, but they still only get accepted by TMPGE when directshow is on setting 2, and then as soon as I click encode it shuts down misteriously. I am going nuts over this, any help would be wonderful.

Thank-you in advance!

Walter

You Made your Problem Much worse By installing Media Player 9, there are Major Conflicts between MP9 and Tmpgenc and Tmpgenc in Most cases run properly with MP9 on the same machine..What you should do is do a System Restore to before you installed MP9, Then Maybe try something like Frameserveing the AVI file to Tmpgenc with V-Dub and see it you can get that to work...

i want to know how to select the output file with mpeg-video stream and mpeg-audio stream in one stream in TMPGEnc Plus 2.5. when i open the project wizard, individual video and audio stream is the default selection and i can't choose the option of combined vidoe and audio as output. pls help.

That's because you are obviously choosing one the DVD templates and leaving the audio as 'Linear PCM audio'
An MPEG cannot be combined with a wav using TMPG, you need to either choose a VCD or SVCD template or change the audio to 'MPEG1 layer II' in the first screen of the project wizard.

ASHY

thank you very much

On some AVI films I try to convert, the picture is superb but no sound at all...the sound p[erfectly on Windows media player unconverted,,but on conversion..no sound..this is not the case on all AVI films...can anyone suggest anything please..I am a dummy at this

This is no help, but I have the exact question you do. So if there are others out there, maybe someone has figured this one out.

Read the answer Below....

Of the avi movies I get from Kazaa, some of them encode into mpegs just fine, while others are missing the video. I can't tell the difference between the avi's that do convert and those that don't. Meaning, if two files are mpeg layer3 audio and divxmpg4 video, both .avi's, one might convert just fine to the VCD format, and the other will not have any sound.

And ideas?

I read something about stripping the audio out of the avi first, and then converting it to a wav file. I'm fuzzy on this though.

Is there something dumb I'm missing? Settings, options, etc?

No you Probably not Missing anything ,Sometimes tmpgenc Just can"t for some reason encode the audio in some files so the way to solve this Problem is to extract the audio to a WAV file with "Virtual Dub" and use the wav file as the audio source..You just load the AVI file into V-Dub and go to "File" to "Save as WAV"....

Thanks for all your help so far Minion! The remove-overscans issue worked when I used "center (keep aspect ratio)". Anyway, I found out in the test file for the remove-overscans issue that in the single part of the video, the audio is out of sync by about maybe half a second or 1 second. I know that because the subtitles there have colored fill-ins so when the singer gets to that part of the word, the word fills up bit by bit and it's behind. The source file wasn't like that. But when the talking part is on, it fits perfectly as well as the subtitles! Is there a way to correct this? I know it's only a second and not all that important, but still, I want to learn as much as I can! I tried bbMPEG but the problem is still there after.

This Can usually be easilly Fixed IF the Audio is the Same amount out of sync the whole Way through the Movie..It is allmost impossible to fix if the audio gradually goes out of sync , If you are useing "BBMpeg" to Mux then use the Start up Audio delay in the Program stream settings and do a Bit of trial and error until it is in sync...It is easier with the Muxer in Mpeg2VCR...

I have a .avi file (PAL, 768x576, 25fps) and converted it to mpg(PAL VCD).
However, when I play the mpg file in Media Player, the picture jumps (blinks) once for about every few seconds.

Is there anything wrong for the setting?

Wrong field order?