XP Pro with latest TMPGEnc Plus

I've used Merge/Cut many times before but can't use it with a series of MPEG-2 (SVCD) files I downloaded recently. Characteristics of these files:

480x480, 29.970fps, Avg bit rate 1689Kbps
Audio format 44KHz stereo, 128Kbps layer II

I can play the vids fine with any player on my system. Merge/Cut opens them fine and even plays them fine. It's just that the slider bar does not move; the best I can do is guesstimate the times and imput them manually.

I normally have no problem with the slider bar and just tried it with other types of files and it worked fine.

So are there some files that might cause this?

Thanks

Well I guess it could be that the Mpeg2 decoder that Tmpgenc is useing is Not very fast so it can not scan through the file very fast, Or it could be a Problem with the Time code in the File, Or it just could be the Fact that tmpgenc"s Merge & Cut is only supposed to be used with Files that were encoded By Tmpgenc so the Structure of the File could be a Bit different than the Merge & cut is used to, I would sugest that you use a Real Mpeg2 editor as even when the one in Tmpgenc works properly it doesn"r work Properly as with me Anyways I allways have Sync problems with Files edited By Tmpgenc, I now use "Mpeg2VCR for all My editing and it is a great and easy to use Editor...

Ashy, Minion Hello..

I have not been to the board in a while hope you are both well.

I have the following problem, made some .mpg files from a dvd and a couple of clips start to 'get choppy' or display frames longer than suppose to when the action scenes gets going. Is this because of using "CQ" constant quality rate control mode?

Or perhaps it is my system not being able to handle the encoding?
I'm on a Dell,Win98
P2
400mhz processer

Here what I did:

I ripped a DVD with SmartRipper
Used DVD2AVI to get the .wav and .d2v

Encode with TMPGenc
320x240
Aspect ratio: 1:1 (VGA)
29.97fps
RATE control mode; CQ
High Quality {Slow}

Video souce type: Interlace
Field order: BOttom field First
Source aspect ratio: 4:3 Display
Video arrange Method: Full Screen

Filters:
Deinterlace
Clip Frame

Can you suggest anything that may cause this?

BTW, I learnd this entire process via ASHY'S help and save the posts from last year. Thanks again man.

Regards
Fess

You don't say what bitrates you are using and why are you encoding to 1:1(VGA)?
Are you encoding to MPEG1 or MPEG2.
Does this happen on the PC only or does it happen on your DVD player too?

The cause could be a number of things.
1. Altered frame rate from that of the original.
2. Too high bitrate.
3. Wrong field order.

Try encoding a few test clips where the problem starts. One with a lower Max bitrate and one with a reversed field order then post back with the info we need above.

>You don't say what bitrates you are using

When I choose 'Constant Quality CQ' from the 'Rate control mode', the 'Bitrate' field grays out. So to find out this info, I went an opened it in Virtual Dub and got this dialogue box stating:

MPEG: Anachronistic or discontinuous timstamp found in video stream 0 at byte position 2064 (may indicate improper join)
MPEG: Anachronistic or discontinuous timstamp found in video stream 0 at byte position 4112 (may indicate improper join)

Now I'm worried, I have never see this error or what ever it is before. I then clicked 'Ok' and checked the 'File Info':
Average bitrate: 323KBps (40KB/s)


>why are you encoding to 1:1(VGA)?

The clips are for the internet and it states here http://www.dvdrhelp.com/tmpgencexplained.htm 1:1 VGA: This would be the correct aspect ratio if you plan to watch your video on your computer.

>Are you encoding to MPEG1 or MPEG2.

MPEG1

>Does this happen on the PC only or does it happen on your DVD player too?

Well, I have a DVD/CDROM so it does not happen on the DVD at all. Only in the clip.

>The cause could be a number of things.
>1. Altered frame rate from that of the original.
I made it a habit to write done whats on the info bar in DVD2AVI, and the 'Frame Rate' indicated 29.970fps, that's what I encode with TMPGEnc

>2. Too high bitrate.
323KBps is the bitrate or the problematic clip that's 'Constant Quality CQ", I usually go with 687 or so when using "Constant Bitrate (CBR)"

>3. Wrong field order.
Field order was: Bottom field First

>Try encoding a few test clips where the problem starts. One with a lower Max bitrate and one with a reversed field order then post back with the info we need above.

Regarding Lower Max Bitrate, I think you mean 'Lower" and "Maximum' Bitrate right?

at a lower bitrate of 323kbs/bottomfieldfirst field B - DID NOT 'skip/get choppy' but looked terrible.
at a higher bitrate of 1000kbs/bottomfieldfirst field B - DID NOT 'skip/get choppy'

at a lower bitrate of 323kbs/topfieldfirst field A - DID NOT 'skip/get choppy' but looked terrible
at a higher bitrate of 1000kbs/topfieldfirst field A -DID NOT 'skip/get choppy'

The problemitic clip was encode 'Bottom field First, I changed the field order to 'Top field first Field A"and left the "RATE control mode" to CQ - DID NOT 'skip/get choppy'

Trying to narrow it down has confused me because all the above test clips work now. And I tried to open them in 'Virtual Dub' and did not receive the error stated above.

What do you suggest?

Regards
Fess

I can't really say what the original problem was, but Virtualdub indicates there was some sort of problem with the timecoding which may have something to do with it.

As for the bitrate setting graying out. This happens because this setting is for the CBR bitrate setting. You need to click the 'setting' button next to it set the bitrates.

Ashy,

Thanks....I guess i'll encode the .d2v & .wav file again using maybe 'CQ' with higher bitrate settings

I posted the strange error I go at the Virtual Dub forum and got this advice:

>Those warnings often appear if an MPEG has been spliced, or if the timestamps in the streams don't begin at 0:00:00 as expected. But don't worry; they're just warnings alerting you to the fact, and they won't affect your processing at all.

Regards
Fess

One more questions I've been wanting to ask for a very long time now an never remember to do so...

When I make my mpeg1 clips (not just the ones of this discussion) and cut them, I notice the following when the clip plays in the page embedded QuickPlayer..

Right before the clip starts, the first few frames or frame have 8x8 pixel distortion then plays normally.

The distortion looks like if you would encode with a bitrate of 1. And I never encode any clip for the internet with a bitrate less than 687 usually.

Have you ever heard of this problem?

Any advice is appreciated
Regards
Fess

I guess this is more likely to do with the player than the file itself.
It could be that it's just a decoding problem with the player and is just playing junk at the beginning until it recognizes the file and selects the correct codec and parameters to decode the file.
Does this happen in any other players such as Mediaplayer?

Ashy...

The 'junk' is appearent in 'Quicktime' embedded page player-i guess it's called the quicktime plugin, and also visible in the stand alone player (v6.1 is what I have)

'Junk' is not present in Media Player7.1/RealPlayer8

Regards
Fess

So I guess it's just the player.

I made a dvd2avi project file and a tmpegenc project file. Then i converted both with vfapi.
The resulating (fake) avi from dvd2avi + vfapi has twice as much frames as the avi from tmpgenc. This probabely has to do something with interlacing etc. since the source is interlaced. Can someone give me some extra info on why this happens, and if i can get problems when i reencode the movie OUTSIDE tmpgenc.

thx

Well this isn"t really a Tmpgenc Question but anyways, There are a Few things you can do, You can load the d2v file into Tmpgenc then do your settings in Tmpgenc then Make a TPR project File then load the TPR Project File into the VFAPI Converter and it will Make a Dummy AVI file with all of the Perameters that you set in Tmpgenc, This should help fix the Problem But the Frameserveing will be slower, So the Best bet is to not use VFAPI At all,You will get Much Faster frameserveing Useing AVISynth and the Quality will be better Because VFAPI Converts all YUV Data to RGB which can introduce some Quality loss...

to minion:

ur answer doesnt really help me :(
maybe i wasnt clear enough so ill try to rephrase it a little better :)

tmpegenc always scans the source movie at the beginning. It knows if it's interlaced or not and if its "Video","Film" or "Video/Film mixed". This gives me the impression i should use tmpegenc as a frameserver. When tmpegenc knows what kind of source file it is, it probabely knows how to handle it. Is this true or is it completely bs ? :)


u suggest i could use avisynth. Since i dont know when the movie is correctly handled i dont know if avisynth does it ok. I know tmpeg examins the movie so tmpegenc probabely will.

Hey guys

I'm having a few problems so here goes -

I used Virtual Dub to save the Wav file from a movie and then i went into TMPGenc and loaded both the Video and the Wav File into the respective boxes. So i was converting the file to a Pal 25fps movie. However when it completes and it is an mpeg and i play the file, i cannot here any sound. Any Ideas?

System -

AMD Athlon XP 2000+
512 MB Ram
Latest Version of TMPGence Plus

Also i am getting this error on some movies -

"At Address 000004B4, read error occurred against address 000004B4"

Thanks for any help in Advance, i couldnt find the solution at the FAQ

I am new at this, and I followed all instructions to the letter. I was all set to go and I had an error window stating: P3package.dll would not load. What is this and how can I fix it??? Thanks!!!!!

This error is Caused from Not haveing all of the Tmpgenc files in the Same folder, Every file that Comes with Tmpgenc has to be in the Same Folder and the Main EXE can"t be sitting on your Desktop as a Shortcut...

If would like to see TMPEGenc allow de-multiplex to extensions of .mpv
for video streams and .mpa for audio streams (as some DVD authoring programs require these extensions and do not allow .m1v and .mp2)

It would save me having to rename the files to proper extensions

Come on get real. I don't really think that is a valid request. It's no hardship to rename an extension and I prefer the extensions TMPG already uses as they are accepted in more programs than the ones you would like.

this is a nice request :):):)
but i dont think this is going to be honoured .

btw
if u cant open a file with the extension and there is no
"all files(*.*)" feature u can type a * int he name box and press ENTER.
this way u can see all file's, and choose any extension.

Hey guys

I'm having a few problems so here goes -

I used Virtual Dub to save the Wav file from a movie and then i went into TMPGenc and loaded both the Video and the Wav File into the respective boxes. So i was converting the file to a Pal 25fps movie. However when it completes and it is an mpeg and i play the file, i cannot here any sound. Any Ideas?

System -

AMD Athlon XP 2000+
512 MB Ram
Latest Version of TMPGence Plus

Also i am getting this error on some movies -

"At Address 000004B4, read error occurred against address 000004B4"

Thanks for any help in Advance, i couldnt find the solution at the FAQ

Well First Make sure that there is actually audio in the Wav file you extracted from the AVI file, and if the AVI file has AC3 audio and you used V-Dub to extract it to Wav it might not work Cuz V-Dub doesn"t Properly Handle AC3 audio , Maybe try a different Program to extract the audio like "AVI-Mux" or a different Program the audio to Mpeg audio....

TMPGEnc can't handle most of DivX sound but a solution for me is using VirtualDub... Here's a tutorial - http://www.dvdrhelp.com/divxtovcd.htm#audio

Hey guys

I'm having a few problems so here goes -

I used Virtual Dub to save the Wav file from a movie and then i went into TMPGenc and loaded both the Video and the Wav File into the respective boxes. So i was converting the file to a Pal 25fps movie. However when it completes and it is an mpeg and i play the file, i cannot here any sound. Any Ideas?

System -

AMD Athlon XP 2000+
512 MB Ram
Latest Version of TMPGence Plus

Also i am getting this error on some movies -

"At Address 000004B4, read error occurred against address 000004B4"

Thanks for any help in Advance, i couldnt find the solution at the FAQ

I've been experimenting with some SVCD MPEG-2 creation using 2-pass VBR and CBR. Is there any real benefits with picture quality going with VBR? (Both are being encoded at 2520 kbps). The VBR file is slightly smaller but I can't notice any difference in the picture quality.

I presume 2520kbps is the average, what maximum and minimum settings are you using?

I think 2520kbps is the maximum recommended speed for an SVCD, so if your content is short enough to fit onto a single disc then you will derive no benefit from using 2520kbps VBR, since it cannot burst past that maximum. If you need to encode at say 1500kbps in order to fit everything, then VBR (with maximum set to 2520kbps) will generate a higher quality output when there is a lot of motion or fast change of detail. Remember for VBR to work that it must be able to burst above and dip below the average.

There is a BIG advantage to using VBR over CBR. VBR allows you to create higher quality movies while producing a smaller file size.
For instance you can fit only about 40 mins of CBR SVCD on an 80 min CDR, but with VBR you could achieve the same quality and higher yet fit almost an hour on one disk.

As for VBR it is generally accepted by most people on this board and others that Constant quality(CQ)is a better VBR method than 2 pass.

Here's a sample situation I run into. I have 2 MPEG2 files made for 80min CD-R and they're PAL. I do a conversion from PAL to NTSCFilm, with BeSweet, TMPGEnc, etc., all that I have down pat but im working on file size now. I have 80min discs but my DVD player will only play until the 74min mark then freezes (Baloney Sony) so I need to set them for 74min. These files will always end up being too large for 2 74-min discs even at 1600 kbps so I want to get it to 3 74min discs (each of the two mpeg2s at 1091.63 MB and i'll merge and cut after to break into 3 727.75).

I'm using the wizard display to gauge file size. Here is the comparison between CBR and VBR:

CBR @ 2188 kbps = 1077.34MB (148% of 74min disc)

VBR @ 2188 kbps (300min/2520max) = 1077.34MB (148%)

Should I assume the VBR method will output the same size file but in better quality? Or is the Est file size in VBR incorrect because it can't estimate until it finishes encoding and I should expect the file to be smaller?

When useing 2-Pass VBR you will get the Same File size as CBR when useing the Same Bitrate as the Average Bitrate But the Quality will Be much better with the 2 -Pass File and with the 2-Pass you can set the Bitrate much Lower than CBR but still get the same or better Quality, But the CQ Method is the Best for Reduceing the File size and still retianing Good Quality....

Thanks for the help guys.

I'm taking a look at the CQ settings as you've advised. How do you adjust the output file size with this? When I change from 2P-VBR to CQ the file size jumps by 148MB. The same settings are intact from my above example 300min/2520max. It seems the only way to get the file size output where I want it in CQ is by going to 300min/2188max. If that's the case, won't 2P-VBR at 300min/2520max (2188 avg) output better quality since it has a higher max? Or is there a setting im missing? There's a "Quality" lever (currently at 65) but moving it doesn't change the projected file size. Thanks

>There's a "Quality" lever (currently at 65) but moving it doesn't change the projected file size

Of course it does unless you are encoding to MPEG1 and have not changed the stream type to 'MPEG1 VBR' which will cause TMPG to add unecessary padding.
Usually reducing the quality by 5% will reduce the file size by about 100mb for a regular movie.

It's not working on mine for some reason. Looking at project Wizard (screen 4/5), when I select CQ all the fields become locked and don't change as I move the quality lever in CQ settings. I'd rather not wing it and take a guess. It would suck after 6 hours of encoding if it comes out too large.

What do you mean become locked? You are making a mistake somewhere.
All you have to do is click the 'Expert' button on the 'Bitrate setting' page of the wizard then change the 'rate control mode' to Constant Quality(CQ). Next click the 'Setting' button right next to it and select the settings you want.
Whatever bitrate settings you choose will then be displayed in the wizard.

Yes it displays the bitrate at 2520 (the max setting) and the file is too big. Like 2P-VBR I want the min/max at 300/2520 but still output a file at 1077MB.

If I lower the max setting it will update in the wizard a new file size but now im going to get worse quality than the 2P-VBR setting at 300min/2520max 2188 avg.

If I lower the "quality" lever in the CQ settings it doesn't change the projected file size output.

When it comes to The CQ Method the Projected File size is Not going to be Accurate because there is No way to Project the File size when useing the CQ method, and useing the Quality slider should change the Real file size even though the Projected file size does Not change....

Thanks Minion. It sounds like 2P-VBR is the better method to use when there's strict file size requirements.

I'm assuming those using CQ "wing it" or else know the source content is small enough that it won't exceed your disc size?

Yes if you have a strict File size requirements then CQ is Probably not the Best unless you have a Lot of experience with CQ and can aproximate the Files size Based on Previus Encodes of Simular Files..

I agree with minion. TMPG won't display a projected file size because it's impossible to determine the resulting file size, but it will change when encoding.
Once you get used to using the CQ method you soon gain a knowledge of what sort of size to expect and there is a way to approximate the final size.

Simply set your parameters and encode a regular part of the movie for 1 min.
check the size than multiply it by the minutes of the enitire movie to see if it will fit.
For it to be more accurate I would suggest encoding a 5min clip then do the math.
Even though this is a crude method and won't be as exact as 2pass it does give you something to aim for.

Having said this CQ is still a better method than 2pass as far as quality vs file size is concerned.
In my experience CQ always produces better quality movies than 2pass for the same file size.

Put it this way commercial DVD's use this method and so does one of best and the most expensive commercial encoders on the market.

While trying to encode Mulholland Drive pt.1, I can select video file no problem, but when trying to select audio, I get the "Abnormal Program Termination" error in the TMPGEnc.exe file. Does anyone know how to resolve this issue, or what I need to do to log a bug report (as I assume they would need a copy of the video and/or audio files). Also, is there any workaround I could try? I tried makeing a copy from VirtualDub without success. Please also note that the audio file I am trying to select is a wav generated by VirtualDub. But I get the error both if I select the movie as the audio source, OR if I use the generated wav. In addition I have also tried using DivFix on the movie, and I have also tried AviToWav to generate the audio wav without success.

Doeboy

When you say that you can"t extract the audio from the AVI file with other tools like AVI-2-Wav do you mean that those Programs Crashed or wouldn"t extract the audio??? If so then I would suspect that the AVI File is Corrupted or Broken in some way and that is why you are haveing Problems with it..What I would sugest is to Try Frameserveing the File to Tmpgenc with AVISynth or V-Dub and if that fails then maybe try re-downloading the file as Downloaded Movies are very often Corrupted and Because you can watch a File doesn"t mean that there isn"t anything wrong with it...

You don't understand, I can extract the audio successfully both from VirtualDub AND AviToWav. What I can't do is use that wav (or the movie itself) as the audio file in TMPGEnc, whenever I try it crashes.

The same happens for me as well. Often, I don't get an error though, TMPGEnc just stops functioning. (This is when I try to select the audio file). I can't do anything with TMPGEnc. I can't close it. I can't even crash it (i.e. ending its process via task manager). Thus, I can't even properly reboot my computer since TMPGEnc won't shut down. I can only get out of it by hardstarting my computer.

I have a svcd that is to big to fit on a cd. I had tried to convert the file to a smaller svcd file. But after 20 secends TmPgenc freezes. Had tested some other files and it worked perfectly. Does anybody know what i should do?

Why convert it to lesser quality. Just split it.

If a movie is to long for 1 cd how do I divide it so I can split it between 2 cds? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

Use the Merge&cut feature in the MPEGtools

If I were you, I would use the source range function (I think it's called that) You'll find it when you select your encoding options. Choose the first half of your frames for disk 1, then the second half for disk 2. For example, encode the first file (CD 01) from frame range 0 through 91051 then when it's done encode the next one (CD 02) from range 91052 to the last frame in the movie. This will split up your movie into two files which will fit on two CDs.